For those who have been reading this blog long enough, you would know that we are absolutely, completely, mind-numbingly devoted to the anti-certificate movement within the PCI-DSS. Really. And every single month, almost, it never fails that we get enquiry that our customer or their acquirer are demanding to see the precious certificate of compliance. And rejecting the AoC. Rejecting the RoC.
It has truly become so farcical in PCI-DSS when acquirers – banks! – demand this of our customers. To an extent that even our customers give a wry shrug at us, the way my wife and I would shrug at each other when my kid tells us that he just witnessed an elephant doing hoola-hoops in a tutu in his kindergarten that morning.
We have written it before and will keep writing it till the horn sounds for the second coming: Compliance ‘certificates’ are NOT recognised by the PCI-SSC! PCI-DSS seals with those wondrous badges (like the police etc) are not recognised by the PCI-SSC. In the words of the council:
The only documentation recognized for PCI DSS validation are the official documents from the PCI SSC website. Any other form of certificate or documentation issued for the purposes of illustrating compliance to PCI DSS or any other PCI standard are not authorized or validated, and their use is not acceptable for evidencing compliance.
PCI COUNCIL REMONSTRATING TO ALL PRO-CERTIFICATES TO STOP DOING THIS NONSENSE
So banks – please, please, for the sake of all that is good and worthy in our God given Earth – DO NOT demand your providers/customers/merchants to show the certificate of compliance. It’s ridiculous and it demonstrates that you, an entity that should know PCI first and foremost, are absolutely not doing your job well. You are making demands for things that are considered unauthorized and unacceptable!
We are not saying certificates are illegal or those peddling these certificates are cheating anyone. By far and large, all QSAs generally provide these so called certificates as an easy way to illustrate compliance, or just to have the customer frame it up and put it onto their wall. This is perfectly, absolutely fine. Even our QSAs do it. It’s not the problem with the QSAs putting these certificates out. The problem are with the acquirers or those demanding to see PCI compliance from their merchants/providers etc. Banks, financial institutions etc who refuses to see anything else but the ‘certificate’ as evidence of PCI-DSS compliance. It’s frustrating. Yes, most clients will be able to provide these ‘certificates’, but where it boils us up is when the acquirer refuses to accept the RoC and AoC as evidence of compliance! WHY NOT? Because likely the person in the bank requesting PCI-DSS have zero clue what PCI-DSS is , or what it’s supposed to be, in the first place.
Banks, here is a simple illustration:
Would you accept the below as proof of compliance:
Or would you accept the one below:
If you answer the first one, then the question is why do you reject the second one?
“Well because it looks fake and it looks like its scrawled by a two year old, or a random hamster running around on a paper with ink on its paws,” you reply.
Well, guess what?
Both should either be rejected, or accepted because both are of the same value. SAME VALUE. Just because one certificate isn’t designed as aesthetically nicer than the other doesn’t make it less of a certificate. Why? Because the baseline worth of the certificate is zero. There is ZERO value to the certificate on paper. The only value attached to it is from the viewpoint of the person looking at this worthless piece of paper and going, “Hum, that looks nice.” or “Hmm, that color looks off.”
I know this may sound like an over-reaction, because at the end, since Certificate of Compliance is now the norm (due to these demands) – everyone who has an AoC would probably have a certificate as well, right? Well, what about those doing their own SAQ? Do they design their own Certificate then and say this is a self attested cert? So, Mr Bank, how do you wriggle yourself out of this kerfuffle? Why do you place so much value into something that (according to PCI SSC) is absolutely worthless, and do not focus on the actual documents that are worth something? And worse of all – to actually reject the documents that are formally from PCI-SSC and accept only these glorified certificates that are worth as much as the paper its printed on!
I think, the only resolution to this is to completely do away with PCI certificates. The next person touting these certificates as the only means of PCI validation, we are going to show them that certificate that’s drawn by the hamster and see what they say.
Jokes aside – let us know if you have any questions on PCI-DSS or any security compliance in your company – we are always willing to help out – drop us a note at avantedge@pkfmalaysia.com.
After being involved in PCI-DSS for almost a decade as well as other standards and guidelines like ISO27K, 27017, 9001, PDPA, GDPR, CMMI and a partridge in a pear tree, we can almost unanimously say: PCI-DSS is probably the most confusing standard out there. Not so much of the content itself – it’s fairly easy to understand in terms of the technical controls. The confusion begins at the start: Applicability and Scope.
Now scoping for PCI-DSS has been hammered by us in many articles over the years, so for this article, we will look at Applicability.
So what is applicability?
It simply means, who does this standard apply to? This is different from ‘scope’. A scope is basically what is being assessed? Applicability is basically: Do I need to do this thing?? For instance for simplicity:-
a) GDPR = Applies to entities processing EU personally identifiable information. Entities that may have a more global presence or require to deal with customers with a larger market distribution may end up being applicable to the GDPR.
b) PDPA = applies to entities in Malaysia processing personal information, which basically means almost everyone.
c) ISO27001 = guideline that can be used by any entity to cover their core processes. This may also be required by some governments on certain industries, e.g the government requiring CNII (Critical National Information Infrastructure), so simply, if you are CNII, then you should be doing the ISO27K.
d) CSA Star Alliance = standard for our data centers to apply, but it’s not mandatory (as far as we know).
e) TVRA = based on MAS (Monetary Authority of Singapore) requirement for financial institutions, so generally if you are regulated by them, then you need to get this done. It’s actually a subset of their Technology Risk Management Guidelines. It’s pretty much a mirror of Malaysia’s RMiT (Risk Management in Technology) subset of data center resilience section. As an aside it seems slightly comical that these two countries, tied so closely together in terms of history and economy would sit down and decide to name their federal bank’s IT standard so closely to each other. I mean, it’s like:
ii) Malaysia – Hmm, we can’t sound the same otherwise we might look like we aren’t original. Let’s flip it around and call it Risk Management in Technology!
Back to the subject, most standards out there has a reasonably clear idea of who it applies to. Even Bank Negara’s e-money guidelines or their baseline IT security requirements – apply to those regulated by them. HIPAA (not in Malaysia) applies to medical and healthcare entities.
Which leaves us with PCI-DSS.
From the onset, PCI-DSS applicability is actually very clear:
PCI DSS also applies to all other entities that store, process or transmit cardholder data (CHD) and/or sensitive authentication data (SAD).
PCI-DSS Standard
So in general, whenever you are storing, processing or even transmitting any part of the card holder data (PAN) or the sensitive authentication data, e.g track data, CVV etc, then PCI applies to you.
The confusion begins when these exact terms are used by those who are NOT doing any of these 3 (Store, Transmit, Process or STP) –lets call them NON STP– but still gets pulled into scope kicking and screaming like a child on his first day of kindergarten or adults on their first day of work after a holiday in the Bahamas. Examples are data centers, hosting providers, physical security storage companies (storing secure boxes for companies) – in their business model, they don’t deal with creditcards at all. But their customers may. Or may not. They don’t know. So for instance, if an insurance company decides to store their policy files with credit card information physically into a box and ship it to the physical storage company, how does the storage company gets yanked into ‘applicability’ of PCI?
The problem of section 12.8.2:
12.8.2 Maintain a written agreement that includes an acknowledgement that the service providers are responsible for the security of cardholder data the service providers possess or otherwise store, process or transmit on behalf of the customer, or to the extent that they could impact the security of the customer’s cardholder data environment
pci dss standard
The last part is where QSAs hook on – ‘impact the security of the customer’s CDE’. Now, just to be clear, 12.8.2 by itself has no indication that PCI is a requirement for these “NON STP” providers. It comes later in 12.8.4 and 12.8.5 where it states
12.8.4 Maintain a program to monitor service providers’ PCI DSS compliance status at least annually.
PCI dss standard
Argument on whether this relates to PCI-DSS compliance as a program or just service providers adhering to the PCI-DSS controls internally is an argument beyond time and space itself and requires a thesis to be written on it. Hence for now, simplicity wise, going by the standards and how many QSAs interpret it, multi factor authenticating providers gets pulled in. Hosting and cloud providers get pulled in. Storage vendors get pulled in. Cloud HSM and security providers gets pulled in. Fraud management gets pulled in. The whole thing about who could impact the security of customer’s environment gives QSAs a field day in including everyone in the party.
So applicability isn’t so straightforward after all. After determining anyone that stores, transmit and process credit/debit card with the PCI council members badges — now we have anyone that influences the security of the first group’s card data environment. This basically pulls almost everyone into applicability.
It doesn’t end there, however.
Because of the way PCI is structured, the PCI council actually washes their hands to determine who should be PCI compliant, and how they should be compliant. They pass that over to the individual card brands (I guess that’s themselves), who passes it to their banks connecting to their network, who in turn passes it on to their payment providers and who in turn passes either to their service providers or to their merchants. This is looked into in FAQ #1473, #1126, #1212 and a whole lot of other references. They always have this statement:
The PCI SSC recommends that entities contact their acquirer and/or the payment brands directly, as applicable, to understand their validation reporting requirements. Please contact the payment brands directly.
Everywhere to ensure everyone knows
When we were kids we used to play a party game whereby two teams have everyone sitting in two long straight lines. At the front of the line, the gamekeeper passes them a message, for instance “There is a blue wolf sitting in the Artic, looking at you with yellow, hungry eyes tonight” or something like that. Each kid will then need to whisper that message to the person behind him until it reaches the last person and that last person will have to go to the front and declare the message aloud, which invariably ends up something like “There comes wind that blew into the attic and sitting at me with fellow grey ice to the right.” And everyone laughs.
This is how it is in PCI. The message gets passed down and somehow along the way, the message gets so jumbled that we can only shrug and go, “OK…” Some messages we have heard (from customers who claim their banks said):
a) “You need to show us their SAQ and ROC together! The AoC is not enough” – Not really. If you are doing SAQ, there’s no ROC (Report of Compliance). Likewise, if there is a ROC, it’s not SAQ. Both have AoC though.
b) “Physical storage companies that store physical card data like forms needs to do SAQ C-VT” – We’ve seen this, where storage company gave a SAQ C-VT (virtual terminals) to their banks and was accepted. No, you can’t. A physical storage company, being a service provider should look at the SAQ D and then mark of the irrelevant controls (such as firewall etc) as Not Applicable.
c) “You can do SAQ A – as a payment gateway!” – A permutation of b) – whereby a payment provider gave us an SAQ A as proof of their PCI compliance. I think they just scanned through which is the shortest SAQ A and go, OK, let’s go for the easiest. No, SAQ A isn”t applicable to service providers. SAQ D needs to be done and controls that are relevant to be identified.
d) “You can store hashes with truncated data, its more secure!” – This is more of our previous post, where a company we spoke to started arguing on the merits of implementing truncation, encryption, hashing and storing everything together. No, it doesn’t work like that. If Truncated information and simple hashing is stored together, without a random salt, it may be easier to determine the card information through common sense brute force (please don’t talk about rainbow tables).
e) “They need me to be a level 4 certified gateway provider since I do less than 6 million transaction.” – In general service provider levels are only level 1 and level 2, according to visa and mastercard and amex. Secondly, the transaction levels for level 1 Visa and Mastercard are 300,000 volume, significantly lower than 6 million (which is for merchants). Amex has a higher threshold (2.5 million) but in general, we look at Visa/Mastercard since they are the most widely distributed.
f) “They insist on seeing a certificate of compliance – other documents are not allowed” – This has become so common that it’s painful. There is no such thing as certificate of compliance. These are all conjured up in the imagination of QSAs and PCI-DSS never issues certificates. It is technically as useless as showing your birth certificate to your bank. Yet, your bank insist upon it. FAQ #1220 of PCI addresses it below. So while it’s not wrong to issue certificates, but these are not considered “official documents”:
Because certificates and other non-authorized documentation are not officially recognized, entities that receive these documents to indicate their own compliance (for example, from a QSA or ASV) or another entity’s compliance (for example, from a service provider) should request that official PCI SSC documentation be provided. Any organization issuing, providing, or using certificates as an indication of compliance must also be able to provide the official documents.
FAQ #1220
g) “Since you only transmit and process card data and not store, no need for PCI-DSS” – We get this a lot from banks. Technically if you transmit or process card data , you should be PCI applicable. However, since banks have a big say in your compliance (for instance they may force you to be level 1 compliant even if you have zero transactions), on the flip side, if they say they don’t need it, then well, you don’t need it. You could probably argue with them and say you actually do need it from a technical point of view, but most customers just take the bank for their word and move on. The bank has made their risk assessment, and if they insist we don’t need to be PCI compliant and gives a black and white stating they don’t need – essentially they (the bank) is absorbing all the risk of non-compliance, aren’t they? Remember – PCI-DSS is generally a contractual obligation between parties. If the bank says contractually you are not required for PCI-DSS, then what’s the argument? In this case, we usually advice our clients to still undergo a self assessment to ensure they are aware of the security practices and we then get a nod of wise agreement before they shoo us out of the room, never to be heard from again. If they had a trapdoor button that drops us into the Rancor’s pit, I guess they would have used that.
h) And finally, most recently –“they say the since we only store PAN and without expiry and CVV, they said PCI-DSS isn’t applicable to us” – this is a bit mind boggling since this bank was an international bank and we think they should know better. But that doesn’t mean local banks know less, we’ll take it back. It’s just that international banks, being exposed in so many countries, would probably have the mindshare larger than local banks to know more about these things. But this one was – “You don’t store CVV and expiry date? OK – no problem, just go ahead and store PAN for all we care! Yeay!” Granted, the use of card information without information like CVV, expiry etc may not be as useful, but there are still other ways for PAN to be used – identity theft for one. Or, it can be used in combination with other information they already have. Or they just want to sell it on the dark web. PCI-DSS puts a big premium on PAN storage, so much so saying, if PAN is stored, all other information must be protected. And oh – CVV is considered Sensitive Authentication Data (SAD), and no, it cannot be stored post authorisation for whatever reason.
There are a whole lot more of strange things we have heard over the years from banks and service providers but those are the main examples. Again, I do not think it’s due to them purposely misinterpreting the standard, but like that party game, once the message gets passed down the line so many times, eventually it’s just going to end up like garbage. It’s like how I had to deal with my wife’s instructions to buy stuff from the grocery. It’s sanskrit to me…I mean how many different pasta brands are there and why must we buy such a specific one? Pasta’s pasta, no?
If you need us to help un-garble PCI-DSS for you, drop us a note at pcidss@pkfmalaysia.com and let us get to it!
It has been a while since our last post but as we are getting back up to speed to restart our work, our email engines are churning again with a lot of queries and questions from clients and the public on PCI-DSS, ISMS, ITSM, GDPR matters. We even have an odd question or two popping up regarding COVID-19 and how to secure against that virus. I don’t know. It’s a multi-billion dollar question which nobody can answer.
So while all these things are going, the one relentless constant we are still facing is: PCI-DSS deadlines. Despite the worldwide pandemic, we still get clients telling us they need to get their certificate renewed, their ASV scans done, their penetration testing sorted within x number of days. The reality of course is a bit more difficult. For example, once you have tested or scan, how does one remediate the issue when we cannot even get onsite to do proper testing? What about the development team, or the patching process, or the testing procedures and change management that needs to be done? The reality is simply, due to the pandemic, DELAYS will occur.
One of the main concerns are ASV scans, because ASV scans need to be done quarterly, there may be actual issues in remediation delays that may cause the company to miss the quarter.
How do we overcome this?
The main step is to always check with your QSA on this. I cannot repeat this ENOUGH. An organisation undergoing PCI-DSS, no matter what your size, especially if you are undergoing QSA certified program (Level 1 or Level 2 SAQ signoff from QSA) – ENGAGE your QSA to assist you. The QSA isn’t just supposed to come in at the end of your certification cycle, start poking holes into all your problems and tell you – you can’t pass because you missed our your internal VA back in Quarter 1. Or state your segmentation testing is insufficient at the end of your certification cycle. Or tell you that your hardening procedures are inadequate, with 1 month left to your certification cycle. The QSA needs to be in engagement at all times – or at the very least on a quarterly basis. Get them to do a healthcheck for you – all QSAs worth their salt should be able to do this. The mistake here is to treat your QSA as just an auditor and not onboard them throughout your certification cycle. An example is in the supplementary document from the council “Penetration-Testing-Guidance-v1_1” shows the possible involvement of the QSA:
In order to effectively validate the segmentation methodologies, it is expected that the penetration tester has worked with the organization (or the organization’s QSA) to clearly understand all methodologies in use in order to provide complete coverage when testing.
Pg 10 PCI Data Security Standard (PCI DSS) v1.1
It’s essentially critical to understand the relationship the QSA must have and the involvement they have, especially in the scoping part of PCI-DSS. The problem we often see is there is a disconnect between the company and their QSAs in terms of scope, or expectation, or evidences, which generally leads to A. LOT. OF. PAIN.
For ASV scans, a QSA may also provide ASV services provided these are properly controlled that there is proper segregation of duties and independence within the QSA/ASV company itself.
However, we have also done many companies whereby we provide the ASV scan and another QSA does the audit. Or the other way where we provide the QSA audit, and ASV is done by another company.
There is one example whereby we were auditing a company, and the ASV scans were done by another firm. We have been engaged from the start on a quarter basis and we highlighted to them that their Q1 ASV scan isn’t clean. We got on a call with the ASV company and worked together to ensure that the next quarter, these non compliant items would be remediated. So even with Q1 ASV not passed, at the end as QSA we still accepted the PCI recertification. PCI Council addressed this in FAQ 1152 – “Can an entity be PCI DSS compliant if they have performed quarterly scans, but do not have four “passing” scans?”
Without early engagement of the QSA and ASV, there would be a lot of problems once the recert audit comes around. In this case we could set the proper expectation early in the cycle for the customer to address.
Another possible instance is whereby the ASV themselves can pass a quarter scan with non compliant findings with compensating controls. This procedure is detailed out in section 7.8 of the ASV program guide, whereby within the quarter scan itself, before the expiry of that quarter, compensating controls are provided and validated and the ASV is able to issue an acceptable report for that quarter. This is important, because QSAs like to see 4 quarterly clean reports, and they throw a tantrum if they don”t get what they want. So in short, for ASV scans, do the following in this order:
a) Remediate all and get a clean report for the quarter; or
b) If you have non compliant for the quarter, engage your ASV, provide acceptable compensating controls, and attempt (not influence) with the ASV to accept/validate these controls and provide a clean report for the quarter but documented under Appendix B of the scan report summary; or
c) If for whatever reason, a clean report cannot be provided for the quarter, work closely with the ASV and the QSA to ensure that at least the next quarter or quarter after next remediation is correctly done. This is tricky because once the quarter report is out, it’s out of the ASV’s hands and into the QSA – on whether they can accept these reports or not. You can hang on to FAQ 1152 – but remember, FAQs are NOT the standard, so you are essentially in the hands of the QSA.
Those are your options for ASV, if there are any delays. DO NOT, in ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, MISS Your quarterly scan. Missing your scan is NOT THE SAME as getting a non compliant report. Missing your scan means there is no recourse but to delay your certification until you can get your 4 quarters in.
Finally before we sign off – let’s clarify here what a ‘quarter’ means. Some clients consider ‘quarterly’ scans to be their actual calendar year quarter. No. It’s not. Essentially a quarter is 3 months of a cycle of 12 months compliance year. A compliance year is not your calendar year (it could be, but it doesn’t have to be). So let’s divide this into two scenarios:
a) Where the ASV scans are required for the compliance year
In the case – the compliance year first needs to be defined, and this is usually done by identifying the signoff date of your AoC. For example if the QSA signed off your certification on April 1st, then that is where your quarter 1 begins. April – June; July – September; October – December; January – March. 4 quarters. You need to perform your ASV scan within the quarter, resolve the issues, and get the clean report out. This is CRITICAL to understand. Because many organisation fail this portion where they do not even perform any scans for the first few quarters and only pick up their PCI-DSS again mid way through and everyone is like: “Oops.” So while drinks and celebration are in the works once you signoff the AoC – your quarter 1 has also begun, so don’t drink too much yet.
So know your quarters. Start your scan early in the quarter, rescans must be done after remediation, and in case you need compensating controls, you need to get ALL THESE DONE within the quarter. If you perform your rescans in the next quarter, you are doomed. You MAY perform the rescan in this quarter and the clean report comes out next quarter for the current quarter – but all scans must be done within the quarter itself.
a) Where we have NO clue when the quarters are
As funny as this may sound (in a tragic way), there are many instances where we (wearing the ASV hat) gets plopped into situations where the client HAS NO CLUE when their compliance quarters are. I don’t know why this occurs. When I request them to check their AoC, or their QSAs for guidance, some can’t provide it. This is as great a mystery as the Sphinx itself. We call these internally, ‘Orphaned ASV scans’. These are projects where we are given the IPs and just told to shut up and scan the IPs. In this case because we onboard all ASV scans with quarters to define when we need to remind our customers, or escalate issues if the quarter runs out – we generally just use the date of the scan as a reference for quarters. So for instance, we provide a clean scan on April 31st. Since they are orphaned scans, without a compliance year/cycle for reference, we use the date of the scan report itself – meaning this scan expires 31st July.
By and large, we are seeing less and less of these orphaned ASV scans issues. Because QSAs these days are more engaged with customers and their customer service has also improved, it’s rare we find a client who isn’t aware of these cyclical requirements. Most clients, not just the large ones, are serviced by QSAs who themselves are reinventing themselves not just as auditors coming in once a year to observe and audit, but provide separate, independent units/consultants to assist healthchecks and support as well to enquiries pertaining to clients.
And a final note on this article – when we refer to ‘QSA’ or ‘ASV’ – we mean ControlCase International (QSA and ASV), whom PKF have been working with for close to a decade. We are not their representatives nor partners, but as our vendor, we’re keenly aware of how they do their certification and we try to manage our projects according to their expectations. As to why we do not want to become QSAs ourselves, we take independence and segregation of audit and operations seriously, as accounting and audit is our DNA. An article has been written at lenght on this: http://www.pkfavantedge.com/it-audit/pci-dss-so-why-arent-we-qsa/
So – drop us a note at pcidss@pkfmalaysia.com for any queries on ASV scans, PCI-DSS or compliance in general. And no, we don’t know how to solve the resolve the Coronavirus yet, but I hope we get there soon. Stay safe and stay well!
It has been a VERY long while since we last updated. Q1 has been a very challenging period for not just us, but for our clients, and I am sure, many businesses around the world as well. It’s just a lot of things (not necessarily good) happening, and we can only wish all our customers and readers to be safe and to take care of oneself during these challenging times.
Instead of going into too technical a subject, it may be a good idea to just start off this decade with a quick recap on some basics of credit card flows. This allows us to understand certain things dealing with PCI-DSS and gives us some background on more technical subjects later. This article takes us back to the basic.
How does a credit card transaction flow look like?
a) A cardholder (you and me) uses a credit card to purchase something – either online (card not present) or physically (card present).
b) The merchant either uses a POS, or virtual terminal or e-commerce, but at the end the authorisation request is transmitted to the ‘acquirer’.
c) The acquirer in this case the the merchant’s bank (or payment gateway, if not a bank). Not yours (issuer). So when you receive a credit card receipt, take a look at the receipt and it should state the acquirer. The acquirer acquires (signs up) merchants to accept card payments and ensure the merchant gets reimbursed for the credit card payments they accept.
d) The acquirer sends on the request to the processor. A processor does the authorisation and settlement service for all credit card transactions for each of the cards accepted by the merchant. These generally requires a front and back end processor.
e) The processor passes the transaction to the issuer, who approves/declines the transaction for whatever reason. Your issuer is the one issuing your card and generally has badge over the card (e.g your bank).
f) Whatever the response from issuer, the processor then sends it back to the acquirer, and the acquirer then sends it back to the merchant, through the terminal or however the request came in.
g) The merchant now has the approval (or decline) code, and the transaction is completed by providing the cardholder with the receipt.
h) Now the merchant and the acquirer goes through the clearing and settlement phase and the acquirer credits the merchant’s account.
i) The acquirer submits the transaction for settlement via the processor, and the processor requests the issuer to reimburse the acquirer for the transaction.
j) Finally, the issuer post the transaction to the cardholder account and the cardholder needs to settle the account (or not) on their statement.
That, in a nutshell is how a basic credit card flow works. Of course, there are inner workings in there, such as usage of settlement banks, consolidation of different acquirers, daily clearing data file reconciliation etc. But the above overall should give you a good working knowledge of what happens when you dip or wave your card in the next transaction you make.
For more information on PCI-DSS or ISO compliance, please drop us an email at pcidss@pkfmalaysia.com! We will get back to your immediately. Stay safe!
As we approach the end of the decade, we are approaching 16 years since PCI-DSS was first introduced back in 2004. 16 years. That’s probably a full dog lifetime. I would imagine the guys back in 2004 would have thought: “Let’s just get version 1 out this year. I’m sure our next generation of brilliant minds will figure everything out by 2020.”
So now we are a few ticking days away from 2020 and yet, at the end of the line, I am still answering calls that are increasing as the days go by: What is PCI-DSS and how do we get it?
Most of these callers are generally calling because our names are listed pretty high on the internet when someone types in PCI-DSS Malaysia. Apart from that, a majority of these callers are calling because we were reference by one of our clients. We have faced different variations of callers coming in: Some requests us to provide them with a PCI-DSS ‘license’ in order to operate for their clients. Some requires a ‘certificate’, some are literally clueless as to what it is but their banks have mercilessly dumped this whole requirement to them.
Step 1: Who’s Asking?
First of all, take a deep breath, here is a simple cheatsheet. Whoever is asking you to be PCI-DSS, take note of it. Here are the Usual Suspects:
Bank – Very likely you are connecting to them doing some sort of payment processing like a payment facilitator, a TPA etc. Or you could be a service provider and your client just happens to be a bank, which brings us to
Customer – your customer for some reason is dealing with credit/debit cards, either directly or indirectly, and they require you to do PCI-DSS because you are servicing them or they have outsourced to you, like BPO, Data Center, hosting, call center, or even network transit
Internal – One of your internal managers have read up about PCI-DSS and decided that your company will sound very cool if you are PCI-DSS certified. Now, in this case, you could or could not be PCI. Because PCI is a contractual obligation dealing with credit/debit cards badged with Visa, Amex, Mastercard, JCB, Diners/Discover – if you don’t deal with this or have any clients dealing with it but your company just wants to get any standard out there – my suggestion wold be to go for something like ISMS (ISO27001) as that’s a better guideline rather than a contractual standard like PCI-DSS. If you still insist – well, you could still go through the SAQ but a lot of it will be not applicable to you since you are Non-CDE for everything.
Those 3 are mainly the motivations behind PCI-DSS. Why is it important to determine who is asking, is because of the next step:
Step 2: Determine your Level
Now there are guidelines out there for which level you should be at. If a service provider, then anything over 300,000 volume of card processing will bump you into level 1. For merchant, anything over 6 million for level 1 and anything over 1 million for level 2. I can’t count the times people get mixed up with Service provider levels and merchant levels. Even banks. I have banks telling our payment gateway that they are Level 4 . There is no such thing. It’s either one or 2. For merchants there are level 1,2,3 and 4 but the volumes are different.
Now while the guidance is cool and all, at the end it’s your bank or customer determining your level. If your bank decides to only deal with you if you do a full certification and RoC with a QSA, then even if you are processing ZERO transactions, they have deemed you as level 1. You can then decide to either say OK, fine, or tell them you are taking your business elsewhere. In that case, they may decide not to play hardball. I don’t know. Same as your customer. Your customer may decide you need to be assessed by a QSA, so it’s best you determine this with whoever is asking you.
The secret sauce is this: Most of the time, your bank/customer won’t have a clue what they want. They will just say, Oh, be PCI compliant. In this case, approach them with some tact. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, should be to avoid level 1 certification as much as you can, if your volume is low. It’s not justifiable. Look, if you want to be assessed by a QSA, by all means, but at least, know that you have a choice if your volume is low, and your bank/customer isn’t fussy about it. Just tell them: “OK, I’ll be PCI-DSS compliant, and I will fill up the Self Assessment Questionnaire (SAQ) and our management will sign it off and send it over to you. Is this OK?” If yes, then great, do your own self assessment. You can save up some money.
Step 3: Determine your Controls
This is probably the trickiest part of PCI-DSS. You see, being level 1 or level 2, self assessed or third party assessed, SAQ or RoC does NOT make any difference on what controls you need to have in place. An example: Level 1 compliance may require you to do ASV scans for 3 external IPs and 20 Internal IP Penetration testing. Guess what? Even if you are doing an internal self signed SAQ, you are supposed to do the SAME THING. No difference. No “Oh, since I am level 2, I will do ASV scans for 1 IP and maybe take 5 Internal IP for Pentest instead of 20.” In theory, all controls are the same, the only difference is WHO assesses and attests these controls.
Now, of course, realistically, this is not happening. Like I always illustrate, some companies consider a firewall as a wall on fire and they sign themselves off as PCI-DSS. Hence the whole passing the buck, passing the risk thing about PCI that I won’t go into discussion here. But in theory at least, same controls apply. But how do you determine what applies to your business? Well, based on your business flows of course.
Determine above all whether you are storing credit card information. If you are not, roughly 35% of PCI-DSS is not applicable (I am plucking that % out of no where, so don’t quote me). But a big chunk isn’t applicable. Second, determine whether you even interact with credit card or not. Look into all your channels. It could be complex like a call center, or simple like a network transit. In most case if you can determine that you have no access to credit card PAN or don’t store, and don’t process, the controls that are applicable to you are minimal. You should STILL be PCI compliant, but minimal controls apply.
Step 4: Determine your vendors and outsourcers
We had a client who cancelled an ongoing PCI-DSS with us because they have deemed themselves PCI-DSS compliant because they are using a PCI-DSS software. I cannot count the number of times I have to correct them – NO. Just by using a software which is PA-DSS compliant or even PCI compliance (like Cloud) DOES NOT make you PCI-DSS compliant. Will it help? Sure it will, but can you piggy back on someone else’s compliance? No. You can’t. So either you go through PCI yourself, or stay non-compliant, but don’t say you are compliant when you are only using a software that is compliant. That’s like saying you are certified to fly a plane when you are a passenger of a plane flown by a certified pilot. Or something similar.
Get your vendors on board for PCI if possible. If they refuse you can still use them, but you now have to include their processes under YOUR PCI-DSS program. Why would you want to spend extra days getting your vendor compliant when there are OTHER vendors who already are compliant?
So there you have it:- When someone requests PCI compliant – first, review your options. There is no ONE way for PCI. Go with the least resistance – self signed SAQ if your volume allows it. That saves you a lot of time and money as opposed to getting a QSA to come in.
If you have any queries on PCI-DSS, drop us a note at pcidss@pkfmalaysia.com and we will attend to it right away! Merry Christmas!
The opinions expressed by our writers and those providing comments are theirs alone, and do not necessarily reflect the views of PKF Avant Edge Sdn Bhd. PKF Avant Edge Sdn Bhd is not responsible for the accuracy of any of the information supplied by our writers.
The material on this site is for general information purposes only and should not be relied upon for making business, legal or other decisions. We make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, sustainability or availability with respect to the website or the information, products, services or related graphics contained on the website for any purpose. Any reliance you place on such material is therefore strictly at your own risk.
Certain links on this website will lead to websites not under the control of PKF Avant Edge Sdn Bhd. When you activate these, you will leave our site and we have no control over and accept no liability in respect of materials, products or services available on any website not under our control.
To the extent not prohibited by law, in no circumstances shall PKF Avant Edge Sdn Bhd be liable to you or any third parties for any loss or damage arising directly or indirectly from your use of or inability to use, this site or any of the material contained in it.
